“At the end of the day, dishonest people who are intent on being dishonest are going to be dishonest."
I can only hope that he remembers this when discussing gun control.

Lynne Torgerson is correct. The Federal Government is supposed to protect and preserve our God given rights.It has no authority to revoke them. The Catholic Church is not a democracy. Individuals may choose to act in a manner that is contrary to the teachings of the Church, but it does not change the teaching. This is not about contraception. It is about Freedom of Religion and not the more limited Freedom to Worship. It is about the freedom guaranteed under our Constitution for both Individual Catholics and the Catholic Church to practice their Faith without government interference, intrusion, or oversight. The Church cannot, and will not be made to provide material support and cooperate in a grave evil. Lynne is right to assume that this intrusion could be taken to other matters. Could the Church be required to teach popular beliefs, or be forced to remain silent on moral matters where it has a clear position that reveals a serious evil, and expose a danger to society? The "Accommodation" actually ensnares more people into the system, who were exempt in the original HHS Directive. If you think that this is just a matter of concern for "those crazy fanatical Catholics", take anything that you feel strongly about, and imagine the government threatening to punish you if you don't recognize its power and comply. Obamacare is first an affront to personal liberty, now it is an affront to Religious Freedom. What "Freedom" is going to take from you? Think about it. What's next?

I think that it is also all about re-election and buying votes.
And as far as some people saying that Obama caved. It would be like me wanting $10 from you. You raise a stink so I only take $5. That makes you feel like you won but I've still got $5 of yours.
It's all smoke and mirrors. We must keep our eyes on both of his hands.

I just read that the ACLU of MN is offering a $1,000 reward to anyone who can prove a case in which someone in the state has been charged or convicted of impersonating a voter. I get it. Why change the law if you can't find a crime? Some people want big government to make everyone get an ID. It's going to cost more money to get people (mostly college kids and the elderly) get other IDs when they don't have a valid license. The whole thing seems like a waste of time.

I would like to see the ACLU go to the states that have Photo ID and offer $1000 to each person who has felt disenfranchised by not being able to vote because of a lack of photo ID.My guess is that the ACLU will not get any takers on their offer and state "We had no responses to our offer ergo, there is not voter fraud".

At any one time around 20,000 people in MN are waiting to have their photo ID replaced. One race was decided by around 700 votes. Smells like disenfranchisement to me. There is not voter fraud. The Senate race found only convicted felons who did not know they were not allowed to vote.

Toregerson and company would have people and institutions bow out of any law or regulation they deem is antithetical to their personal beliefs. This would mean that if they held it was against their faith not to do something they could decline any obligation of citizenship in our society. They could, for example, hold that it is a matter of their faith that in Catholic hospitals women cannot be seen by male doctors, or men by female doctors, depriving them of perhaps the best of care. Tehy could take a position that women should not drive and on that basis deny care to anyone brought to their hospital in a vehicle driven by a woman. The possibilities for them imposing their personal views on the rest of society at the expense of the general welfare is endless, and yet they feel that Catholic and other religious based institutions are entitled to taxpayer funds. Seems to me there is a major disconnect here. There is indeed freedom of religion, but there is also freedom from religion. If there is a God, may she save us from her zealots.

I just returned from a Doctor's appointment.
I had to present the parking ramp ticket, my insurance card and of course, my driver's license, again....

Poll after poll shows that the overwhelming majority of Minnesotans (80% or more) want photo ID required to vote.

99% of Minnesotans already have state-issued ID in their pockets and they generally carry it with them all the time. How many people walk around with a utility bill in their pocket? It’s common sense to use your ID at the polls instead of an easily forged utility bill.

This bill will help people who may be having a hard time getting along in society because of a lack of identification by providing ID at no charge. This has the added benefit of enabling people to get work, open bank accounts and participate in other normal functions of society that are impossible without photo ID.

You need ID to buy cold medicine or visit a doctor. Providing a free ID will help people who lack them get along better in society.

Minnesota is breaking records in convictions for voter fraud and thousands of Election Day registrants are being flagged for challenge due to unverifiable names and/or addresses after their votes were counted.

Those who are supporting voter id fail to consider that voting is a right and that the handful of people who in past decades have voted when they weren't entitled to were felons who had not had all their rights restored. The voter ID amendment is a solution in search if a problem and is designed solely to limit voter turnout especially among groups that traditionally vote Democrat, the young, the elderly, and the poor. It amounts to a poll tax and should be defeated.

How is offering employees contraceptive coverage violating their freedom of religion? If they practiced their religion to a T they should never have to get contraception so there is no problem. Has a Catholic ever used contraception? Absolutely. Does that mean they can't be a Catholic? I don't think so. This sounds more like the Church keeping it's flock in line to me.
I wonder how many Catholics feel this "no contraception" policy is a little silly.

Also, "religiously affiliated universities and hospitals will not be forced to offer contraception coverage to their employees. Insurers will be required, however, to offer complete coverage free of charge to any women who work at such institutions."

What does that even mean?! I read it to be women who work at religiously affiliated universities and hospitals will be required to get completely free medical coverage.
or the employer does not have to offer it but the insurer does? Does that mean that employees will have contraception covered or not? What a confusing quote!

David, Freedom of Religion is not revocable. You can name any sin, and it would be highly unlikely if you can't find many Catholics who are guilty of that sin. The Church is filled with sinners, people who fail to live up to the ideal. What the Church teaches in matters of faith and morals is perfect. What people do with it isn't. It doesn't contradict the truth, nor does it abolish the Church's authority. Why is it that the most vocal supporters, and distorters of the concept regarding separation of Church and State are the same folks who want to impose their will on the Church? Individual Catholics retain their God given freedom to act as they will. The ACA (Obamacare) is a totalitarian effort to restrict freedom, and compel activity that is contrary to both Church teaching and the U.S. Constitution. It imposes its will on all citizens unconstitutionally. The Church's Authority is Catholic (transcendent or universal). It is protected in the U.S.Constitution. The first role for government is to protect and defend those Rights. The Catholic Church does not stop at the parish door. All of its institutions and members are a part of the Church. Members may disagree or disobey but they are not authoritative. The Church is not a democracy.It is a hierarchy. The Church's Authority speaks with one voice, and propose one Truth. Our bishops, in conformity with the Pope, form the Magisterium, which is the authoritative voice of the Church.

Voter ID properly and fairly administered, will restore confidence in our elections. WCCO and the Star Trib have shown polls with overwhelming support for Photo IDs. Proof of citizenship has to be a component. Accepting another state's driver's license as proof is an invitation for fraud and abuse. If E-Verify can be used for employment,the state can use it to verify citizenship. Seniors could get one permanent ID after an agreed upon age, and the permanently disabled or physically limited should also have their needs addressed. Voting is both a right and a privilege. I want every qualified citizen to vote, and have faith in the results of all elections.

Once again, the right wing cannot cite instances of voter id fraud in Minnesota elections. Voter ID is simply an effort to supress the vote among the young, the elderly and the poor. The Republican led legislature is trying to distract the electorate from its record of ineptitude. They should be focused on jobs and the economy and instead they choose to try to divide us. The Republicans were given the opportunity to enact solutions to our difficult financial times and they have failed. They hope we won't notice. They are truly unfit to govern.

John you forgot to mention some other Democrat talking points such as the Republicans want to kick Grandma out of her nursing home and take away Social Security and Medicare from the older folks.

Finally, truth from the Right.

When the State of Minnesota sends out their little postcards, after the election, verifying the address and voter information, how many of those notices come back, address incorrect? What happened to the 6,224 PVC cards that were reported as undeliverable in 2008? A person using a false name or address can't be traced after the fact. Since some races were so close, even a few hundred fraudulent votes could make the difference.

The Freedom of Religion is not absolute otherwise Mormons would still be able to practice polygamy and marry more than one wife. In addition, the conservative courts have already ruled that religious beliefs do not trump public wellbeing when they ruled that a child may receive life-saving medical care despite the objections of the parents based upon their religious views.

In addition, the Catholic Church is not just a hierarchy, it is an aristocracy with the Pope = King and the Archbishops = the Dukes. I thought the United States threw off the chains of aristocracy with the American Revolution. Me thinks we need a new "Age of Enlightment" and do away with the other remnants of aristocracy which exist in our supposedly democratic society.

Again, Donna, give us a verified example voter fraud implicating voter id. You can't. That's because it hasn't happened.

Joe,The U.S.A is a Constitutional Republic. You might consider reading the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution along with the Amendments, and the Bill of Rights. You can Google them. Roman Catholicism and our governing political documents are not incompatible. Roman Catholicism and some of our governing politician's unconstitutional efforts are, in their present form,incompatible. John,Maybe you could do a little Googling regarding voter fraud? You'll find quite a bit.

Again, give us a verifiable example of ID related voter fraud here in Minnesota. We have the example from the latestof New Hampshire primar? where Republican operatives tried to pass themselves off as others for the sole purpose of trying to create incidents of ID inked fraud. Is that what's being referred to.

Are you saying Kevin that the Mormon Church should be allowed to practice polygamy?

Donna, there were only 6,224 undeliverable PVC postcards? Considering how often people living in apartments move from one year to the next, I would expect that number to be higher.

BTW, the website prnewswire.com has this description for their company - "Corporate communication is the language this company speaks. PR Newswire Association is a leading distributor of corporate news and public relations materials" Seems like prnewswire is more of an advertising agency than a legitimate source of news. In other circles, advertising is equated with propaganda.

87% of the people convicted of "illegally voting" were convicted felons who unknowningly voted before their rights were restored. The DFL had a bill to solve the problem and would have resulted in 87% fewer "illegal votes" yet TPaw vetoed it. Why? The Bush administration and Karl Rove illegally fired seven U.S. attorney's appointed by former President Bush and ratified by a Republican Senate because they weren't considered aggressive enough investigating voter fraud. Those seven U.S. attorney's did heavily investigate the issue of voter fraud and found it to be a huge waste of taxpayer money and office resources. Why were Bush and Rove trying to gin up the issue of voter fraud? Why did TPaw veto a bill that would have solved the problem? Coincidence or an insidious attempt to change election laws?

After re reading the above comments it's clear that the Right has no instance of verifiiable voter ID fraud in Minnesota they can point to. Instead of delivering up some relevant facts, they fall back into their bogeyman fanatasies. There is no voter fraud monster waiting to strike here in Minnesota except under Republican beds and in Republican closets. The Republican officials they've elected to the legislature and local governemnt have failed miserably and continue to prove they are not at all fit to govern, that they have neither plan nor capacity nor ability to rebuild the state's economy increase jobs, and they have nothing to offer to our counties or cities except more local taxes. Faced with their own unbelievable immorality, their cupidity, and the shallowness of their ideas and ineptitude of themeselves and their leaders they try to divert the electorate by tilting at windmills and restarting the culture wars. The Republicans hope to save their sinking ship by dividing the state on social issues. The people want jobs and education and health care and the Right now wants to destroy worker rights, to continue welfare for the very rich, curtail voting, and tell the people of Minnesota who they can marry. Because of their bizarre ideas and behaviour, not only is the Right unfit to govern, like the Catholic Church unless they change course they'll soon marginalize themselves into irrelevancy. Good riddance.

Joe Brothers - You stated that Bush illegally fired 7 US Attorney Generals. You probably weren't around when Clinton fired all 97 US Attorney Generals.
So again, it's OK when the Democrats do it, but heaven forbid when a Republican does it.

Joe, like all from the Right McLean feels he is entitled to his own facts. You have to realize that. Here is what the rest of the world, that is, those who don't twist the data to their own liking, consider fact regarding U. S. Attorneys General and their dismissal, terms of service, etc.: By tradition, U.S. Attorneys are replaced only at the start of a new White House administration. U.S. Attorneys hold a "political" office, and therefore they are considered to "serve at the pleasure of the President." At the beginning of a new presidential administration, it is traditional for all 93 U.S. Attorneys to submit a letter of resignation. When a new President is from a different political party, almost all of the resignations will be eventually accepted.[176] The attorneys are then replaced by new political appointees, typically from the new President's party.[177][177][178]
A Department of Justice list noted that "in 1981, Reagan's first year in office, 71 of 93 districts had new U.S. attorneys. In 1993, Clinton's first year, 80 of 93 districts had new U.S. attorneys." Similarly, a Senate study noted that "Reagan replaced 89 of the 93 U.S. attorneys in his first two years in office. President Clinton had 89 new U.S. attorneys in his first two years, and President Bush had 88 new U.S. attorneys in his first two years."[179] Here is the complete story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismissal_of_U.S._attorneys_controversy

Kevin, did you REALLY say, "What the Church teaches in matters of faith and morals is perfect.?"

Really? So then all the Christians in this country who are not Catholic are wrong on those matters, correct? Does that mean they're bound for Hell?

Of course the Roman Catholic church holds the corner on salvation. As does each of the other Christian churches. As does Islam. So if you're not Catholic you're going to Hell. Of course if you're not Baptist you are too. And if you're not Muslim you're also eternally damned. What about that is so hard to understand?

There is no directive in the Catholic Church that requires people from another faith, or even people with no faith to go to hell. It also does not teach that all Catholics will go to heaven. If you want to go to Hell, I do believe that arrangements can be made, but please go it alone. On that issue we are pro-choice. I do hope you'll take the better option. I want you to be happy with your choice.

Kevin, you still haven't answered my question on whether the Mormon Church should have Freedom of Religion and be allowed to practice polygamy. What is your opinion on this matter?

I suggest that a review of the history of western Christianity and especially the Roman variant of Catholicism indeed preaches its exclusivity in terms of salvation and the damnation if those who choose not to believe. It has historically been the same for the other Christian churches, hence the religious wars of past centuries. Those who didn't belong to one's own faith were usually considered religious Untermenschen and therefore not worthy of life even, and certainly not worthy of salvation. The Roman church along with the Calvinists were the worst in terms of holding this philosophy. And now we have it again today in Santorum Catholics like O'Donovan and other radical right wing Christians who have taken over the Republican party.

Willful, persistent,and obstinate ignorance are not the best traits to cultivate. All Americans are guaranteed Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Speech within Constitutional limits. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is not to be used as a hammer. The Church proposes. It does not impose. Its self understanding is markedly different than your understanding. Does the Mormon sect require its members to practice polygamy? I don't know, but I don't remember that being taught when I took classes on Mormonism in Mesa, Az. I did find many of their social practices to be commendable. Is it possible that your knowledge of Mormon teaching is equal to your knowledge of Catholic teaching? Does bigotry spring from knowledge, ignorance or both? Does it come from fear?

Always fun to watch the apologists for the Right and especially the pretentious self appointed expert voices for the far right wing of Roman Catholicism wiggle, squirm, and try to denigrate any who challenge them or the self avowed primacy of their faith. Facts are easy to ignore but tough to refute. Anyone who attended a Catholic elementary or high school knows that the catechism was used as a club and a bludgeon and that all other faiths, whether Christian, Muslim, or Jew or other were condemned as hand carts to Hell. Lots of luck living in fear and especially with that salvation thing, Kevin.

John, Catholics believe that Faith itself is a grace, or gift from God. Not all people have it. It most often comes from our parents. We definitely do not believe that Heaven is reserved for Catholics, and that everyone else will go to Hell. There are eventually only two possibilities. If you went to a Catholic School, you either had an ignorant teacher, or your teacher had a student that wasn't listening. Part of the tuition in Catholic Schools is called paying attention.

Kevin, I received the Sacraments of Baptism, First Communion, Reconciliation, Confirmation, and Marriage. I went to a Catholic Elementary School and taught for 12 years at a Catholic High School. I don't profess to know everything about the teachings of the Catholic Church but I do know one thing. One of the tenets of the Catholic Faith is that the Catholic Church is the one and only way to Salvation and the Grace of God. I know this because it was said to us by the Vicar General of the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis.

Joe, Congratulations. You may want to follow up on all of that with a question. Ask the same Vicar General, if it's true that only Catholics can hope to enter Heaven? The answer will be No. If its any different let us all know. Do you remember the Transfiguration? There is a clue there. We believe that ALL people are created in the image and likeness of God ,and that ALL people are God's children. I think that you may want to read the Founding Documents of the U.S.A., and see if any law can infringe upon the Freedom of Religion? There is one law that does that, and it's the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). There is only one President engaging in unconstitutional acts, and one political party that supports that legislation. It is an unconstitutional law,on several points, Freedom to Practice your Faith is but one of the issues. That is the issue before us. You and others may disagree, and that is why it is being taken up for consideration in the U.S. Supreme Court.

All this debate should point out precisely WHY there is a firewall called "Separation of Church and State" in the first place. Please note that it does not say "religion" but "church". And if you don't understand the difference…maybe it's time to get your GED.
As for the Voter ID debacle; IF IT COSTS ANYONE TO VOTE-IT'S A POLL TAX. And that is illegal… for very good reasons, worked out by minds far more knowledgable on the subject. I'd much rather have a Voter IQ requirement - LOL "De profundus claumuiad te domine" and spare me from profanum vulgus